How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?

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Samuel S.

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My PDwife seems to be so very satisfied and rather happy with her newly found purpose of a better life. Granted, she still works part-time, although she is attending school for a new job. She definitely has a new mindset professionally speaking which compared to previously was way worse then, when she would be very emotionally abusive. She is being neglectful of our relationship compared to how it was, and even she has admitted that and waits to the day that she completes her degree in about 1 1/2 years.

The problem is that while she has this newly found mindset of feeling better about herself and she now says to basically forget the past, she expects me to erase the past, the horrible past that she created. I am very leery about this newly found mindset when she has been such a horrible, loving person whenever she would want to be. I now am living with the residual playback of all of the hurt that she imposed upon me and has affected me a lot. As often as she would act horribly, she now wishes to erase it away, but Taylor Swift correctly stated it in one of her songs, that bandaids can't fit bullet holes.

So, how do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?

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1footouttadefog

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2017, 09:59:08 AM »
Your writing is not your usual.  I suspect you are feeling a large amount of negative emotion at this time. 

I am not sure ita about forgiveness or unforgiveness.  If I were in you place, it would be about continue with what I knowto be true or not continue with what I know to he true.

I would also be suspecting that the change from instability or rather mood lability to steady neglect is a result of her having checked out emotionally.  Disengagement can look like this whether the non or the pd.

I hope you can find a path to happiness in or out of this current reality.

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Whiteheron

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 01:43:12 PM »
Hi Samuel,

I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. It is completely invalidating to have them tell us to forget about the past. I can't remember how long you've been with your PDw, but I have 20+ years of history with my uPDh and he's told me flat out I need to forget about everything that happened. I told him I can't. I have been deeply wounded by his words and actions, I can't erase history, who it's made me into. He claims he can't remember 95% of the things he's said and done. In some cases he's told me "I would never say/do that, I love you..." He shows no acknowledgement, no remorse, no attempt to get to the bottom of why he felt it was ok to treat me this way for over 20 years. He tells me it couldn't have been too bad for me to have stayed with him for so long. Again, invalidating.

I think if he had shown some true remorse, made amends, and tried to take steps to correct this behavior in therapy I would feel differently. Even a heartfelt apology would have been something. He's deeply disturbed that I am still holding onto anger over some of the things he's done in the past. I tell him it doesn't go away overnight. He just can't seem to understand why I won't just let it go and get back to the way we were. Pretending it didn't happen doesn't make it go away.

 :hug: Hugs to you, I feel your pain.
You can't destroy me if I don't care.

Being able to survive it doesn't mean it was ever ok.

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notrightinthehead

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 01:57:08 PM »
First I could not see past the abuse anymore, I could not snap out of it, then I could not trust that it would get better, or that the better times would last, and in the end I could not love my NPDh anymore.
Of course he now goes around, telling everybody who is polite enough to listen, that I never loved him. I only wanted his children. That way it is all my fault and his persisten emotional abuse had nothing to do with it.

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Adria

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2017, 02:32:48 PM »
I think if you are going to stay, then for your own sake it would be good to forgive.  However, that being said, I would sit down and tell her how much she has hurt you, and that it would really help you move forward if she could find a way to sincerely apologize for all the hurt, and try to make you feel better. It may take her apologizing over and over again until you can accept it.  I've been through the same thing, and my dh has really put in an effort to change and he has, but yes, sometimes the hurts from the past creep up.  And then, I simply ask for another apology, I need it for myself to get over that next hurdle.  There is a difference between forgiving and forgetting.  It is hard to forget the past, but forgiving frees us. It only hurts us to hold a grudge, especially if you are going to stay in the relationship. 

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Samuel S.

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2017, 05:43:25 PM »
I indeed have told her how much she has hurt me, but as quickly as I said that, she said I should breathe in order not to get my blood pressure up. Then, she quickly apologized. Ever since then, she has not been emotionally abusive, and she has tried to be somewhat more considerate. She is making just as many meals, but quickly goes to what she needs to do in terms of her school work.

Yes, it does hurt. Yes, it is a grudge. Yes, she has tried not to be emotionally abusive. Yet, with all that being said, if she hadn't said and done those things in the first place due to her own circumstances of her past before me, she wouldn't have said and done those things. She just lashed out at me. Let's get specific here:

1. She told me that I caused a car accident when I was found totally innocent. She wasn't in the car, but she said my attitude caused the accident. BTW, I was having a great day, and both car insurance companies found the other driver totally at fault. BTW, I was the one that got a whiplash and had to experience 6 weeks of physical therapy.

2. She told me that she felt like my daughter when we were intimate. Granted, I am 17 years older than she is, but that was never an issue before, nor was there anything that I did to cause her to say that. BTW, I have not touched her since.

3. She told a fellow worker that I should have an affair with another woman, because she is too busy with her studies.

4. She told twice when I had hospital emergencies, that I should leave the hospital, because it would cost our insurance to go up. BTW, we never got a bill, and my insurance covered everything.

4. She put a wedge between my 2 daughters and me. She even laughed about it. That was when I knew I couldn't trust her.

5. Her so-called counselor truly hates me and thus has influenced her to just develop her own life entirely without cherishing the relationship that she and I have.

There have been other examples, but I won't bore you with them.

Now, she has apologized to me once and has moved on with what she wants to do. So, it is definitely hard to forget and to forgive. She put it all upon herself due to her own anger. I can rationalize all of this, but it sure doesn't help me to feel better, and it sure doesn't help my relationship with her one iota.

Yes, I think she has checked out emotionally, because she wants to move on professionally. Yes, I think she has checked out emotionally, because she knows that I will eventually pass away before she does, and she doesn't want to feel close now as a result.

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Ellie307

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2017, 06:31:07 PM »
You cannot forgive her because you've never received a sincere apology.
Notrightinthehead summed it up well.
The resentment and invalidation build such a high wall, you can't see past it to stay in love with them...IMO.
"Make it worth the price we pay."
"Nothing changes if nothing changes."
"If there's one good piece of me left, I swear, it's mine and mine alone."

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RemovingTheNoose

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 07:01:51 PM »
1. YOU need to forget about the past...

2. YOU need to wait 1 1/2 years into the future...

How about THREE: What has SHE ever done for you?

How about FOUR: What is SHE doing for you now?

And FIVE: What will SHE do for you in the future, what is it SHE wants you to wait for and is it worth waiting for something that may never come?

Still seems all about HER she has just changed her tactics... dismissing you is still a form of emotional abuse, imo...

* Keeping with TaylorSwift, she want you to 'shake it off' while like you said, you have bullet wounds. Bullet wounds need air and time to heal.


Good luck and decide what it is that YOU want and YOU need     :cheers:
* I WILL NOT SET MYSELF ON FIRE JUST TO KEEP YOU WARM *

* On a list of 35 Narcissistic Traits my NMother has 31, she would be so proud to have scored so highly *

REMOVED THE NOOSE: 14 JAN 2017
BECOMING A BETTER WIFE AND MOTHER: 15 JAN 2017
TODAY: not always smiling but still winning   :-D

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1footouttadefog

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2017, 12:15:46 AM »
Let's play what if.

What if she meant her apology sincerely. What if her hurting you was indeed a result of her past hurtful experiences etc.

What if you forgave her and no longer felt any pain over the past. What If all before today was settled, painless and forgotten?

Would you find what remains as truth and your reality today acceptable?

I think this is an important thing to ponder.


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Samuel S.

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2017, 01:12:46 AM »
Your what if scenarios are important to ponder, and I really don't know what to ponder. You see, I have been brainwashed to believe by her that "you have to trust your gut". Nevertheless, when I have "trusted my gut", I immediately have been berated by her warped way of thinking. Thus, after so much time of trying to stand up for myself, I was brainwashed to believe that it is only her way that counts. I had so many arguments trying to stand my ground beforehand, but only to be berated and told I was not right. Then, with all of the s*** she pulled on me and my family, it truly has been hard to ponder what if scenarios. I cannot trust myself.

To show how she berates me in even slight ways, she is out of town. She usually calls before she or I go to bed. She hadn't called. So, I called her. She said that she had done so much today, that she knew she had one more thing to do, but she almost forgot. That is, to call me. Then, when I did talk with her, she went non-stop about her day, and she finally asked "oh, by the way, I hope you had a good day." I responded briefly what I did. Then, she asked when I would get back "home" tomorrow night. I just responded by saying I will be back at 6:30 PM. I can't say "home", because it doesn't feel like "home" here.



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HotCocoa

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2017, 05:41:59 AM »
Samuel, you seem to treat her with a lot of respect and dignity.  She does not sound like she does the same. 
I believe even in marriages where there aren't pd's, everyone is capable of doing something to hurt the other person, however, when the other person is remorseful about it, that's when healing begins.  A lapse in judgement that is recognized and the person tries to make up for. 

However, I sense this woman steam rolls over you.  She talks so much about "her" career, "her" school, "her" aspirations, when you have a career as well.  You have life goals and dreams as well.  What makes "hers" so much more important than yours?  Marriage is a two way street.  Sometimes its about one person, sometimes its about the other.  Give and take, but when its all take on one side and no give, then I don't think its up to you to "forgive" something that she doesn't think she is owed forgiveness for.  She doesn't see anything wrong with the status quo, and that is the problem. 

Perhaps you could start by dropping the rope a little and reaching out to your daughters more if that's possible?  Try to heal the wedge and just live your life how you want and let her go on with hers.  Yes, it may be separate lives in the same house, but isn't that what it is now?
 :bighug:

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Samuel S.

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2017, 09:49:00 AM »
HotCocoa, you bring up a lot of good points. Thank you!

Yes, I do treat her with a lot of respect and dignity, and, yes, she does not do the same. A marriage is a two-way street. Yes, she has apologized to me, but it was only when I really became so completely overwhelmed by her toxicity to degrade me and to abuse me emotionally. She never has apologized just out of the blue, if you will.

Yes, you are right, that she does talk so much about herself which I respect, because that makes up herself. Nevertheless, when it comes to what I have accomplished and shared with her, she just says "that's nice" and changes the topic usually to herself. I don't brag, because I am not that type of person. I just wish to help people, and sometimes, I do get recognition, but that's not the goal. My friends, my colleagues, and my other family know that I am helper, and that is it. That is why I teach, tutor, give workshops, and write books.

Yes, she doesn't think she is owed forgiveness for, and she does rationalize what she says and does due to her selfishness and "poor me" attitude.

Luckily, my daughters and I are on much better terms, thank goodness! They don't want to see her, and she doesn't want to see them, and that's perfectly fine with me. Bottom line and she has said this, she is jealous of at least one of them, because she knows I love both of them.

Yes, we do live separate lives.

Thank you for your insight and for your sensitivity, HotCocoa! Bless you!

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butterfly199

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2017, 11:53:22 AM »
H is constantly telling me to let go of the past and my resentment (which I admit I have). He always says I don't need to forget, but I need to let it go.  Honestly, I'm not sure that I can. It shouldn't have gotten to the point of being ready to walk away to get an apology.  We did go to T and he said the resentment is something I need to figure out on my own. Even if I want to let it go, I might be capable of letting it go.

IMO letting it all go, opens the door for a repeat. I might be able to forgive some things, but I will never forget.

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Mishy

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2017, 12:46:14 PM »
I feel like a broken plate constantly. And the apology glues the pieces back together...until the NEXT time my husband smashes the plate!!! I forgive ALL. THE. TIME. Only to get broken again which is so frustrating, and defeating, and diminishes my value. Just focus on keeping the pieces of you together and not allow her to smash your plate because she's trying to in OTHER ways than her other tactics. How DARE she compare herself to your DAUGHTER when it comes to intimacy. I'm sorry but that is a deal breaker. My husband told me I was boring...I'm FAR from boring. But with that seed planted it will repel you from even wanting to TRY to be intimate. And I feel this is a different hurtful tactic to make us feel bad. I can see that through your story. It is a means of controlling our feelings and making us feel bad. I'm so sorry to know another person feels the way I do. WE don't deserve this. No one deserves this. And I hope that you will find happiness in whatever decisions you make for your future!

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Shell92127

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2017, 04:22:32 PM »
I read that we all have trouble recalling the nasty things WE have said or done but can easily recall
what others say and do that is nasty. for me, it extremely hard to forget all the nasty things said and done to me.

i have been reading the website of dr craig malkin and watching some of his videos on youtube about
narcissism.

he says never say 'you're a narcissist' to someone - they won't take it in
focus on the moments they show caring concern empathy
the more they see they can rely on relationships the less they
need to feel special.....if they are in denial it will not get better...
and a pattern of remorseless lies & deceit is dangerous..

you are looking for some sort of flexibility-do they have a capacity to share vulnerable feelings?
emotional hot potato-'here you take the feeling-!'
what's got you feeling off today? is there something making you feel shaky today?
catch the person being good....to help them
focus on moments of connection and caring.......
you can say 'this feels great when we have conversations like this
i feel you're really listening and understanding my feelings.
i love it when you can talk like this and i'd like to do it more...'

to protect yourself-execute a "connection contract"-a form of limit setting--
on the phone say something like-"Hey I really want to see you-spend time with you etc
but if i hear yelling or if i hear criticism or if i
hear invalidation that will tell me you are not in a space to be around me
and i will have to not be in the same space with you. so it's really up to you
whether or not we can spend time together. .."

you are saying "this is what's required for me to be able to spend time with you.
so now you know what the deal breakers are.."

in my case this MIGHT work as I do not live with the person in question.
might not work for those with live in significant others or spouses.

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Unmasked

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2017, 10:46:16 AM »
There are some really great suggestions in this thread, thank you everyone for sharing.  Forgiving someone who doesn't see wrong in their actions is difficult to do for sure...and even more so when they refuse to apologize.  I've learned that forgiveness is for my own benefit...it doesn't mean I'm setting myself up to be let down or hurt by abusive behaviour again, but that I have some understanding of where it's coming from, and that I can't hang on to it because hanging on to it makes me feel worse...it's creates more toxicity in my soul.  I have definitely worked on not setting myself up for disappointment by trying to forget it all happens...although some of it is quickly forgotten thanks to my mind learning to disassociate in the middle of the screaming, berating and posturing.  Forgiveness does not mean acceptance that this is how things should be in my life, it means I need to feel better about myself and be the bigger person in all of this until she gains an ability to recognize the damage she does with her razor sharp words and attempts at intimidating me.

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Samuel S.

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2017, 12:20:48 AM »
Quite honestly, I try to feel better about myself and be the bigger person with my PDwife, but she has done so much undermining and manipulating in terms of our relationship. It hurts so deeply. She did a quick apology, but only after I brought it all to her attention. Then, although she has not been abusive ever since, she has been doing her thing, thus neglecting our relationship. Granted, she gets a lot of food and prepares it, but she says that's the best she can do. In the meantime, I am left with the toxicity that she is in complete denial about. Like for all of us, if the abusive behavior didn't take place in the first place, there wouldn't be any negative residuals, if you will.

You bring up the idea to disassociate when horrible things happen. How do you disassociate after horrible things happen?

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Whiteheron

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2017, 07:57:46 AM »
Samuel, it does hurt. Very badly. We go for years and years (in my case 20+) being the better person. Letting it roll of our backs, swallowing our pride, forgiving their abuse time after time after time. We do get to a point where we can't do it anymore. I physically and mentally couldn't do it anymore. I reached my maximum capacity for tolerating his PD behaviors. They weren't getting better. Some behaviors would, but then new ones would crop up. There is only so much a person can take. In my case, when I stopped taking it, and stood up for myself, he turned those behaviors onto the kids - it seems he needed an outlet for his feelings? emotions? whatever he keeps buried deep down inside. It needed to come out - I was the easy target, but when I stopped tolerating it, he moved onto the kids. I think that unless they get to the core of "why" they will never be able to change. Quick apologies from stbx only stoke my anger because I know it's not real, and he will either repeat the behaviors or move onto something new, but equally hurtful.

From what you write, it sounds like you don't have a wife, you have a cook. She is doing the bare minimum for your relationship.

I'm sorry you're going through this.  :hug:
You can't destroy me if I don't care.

Being able to survive it doesn't mean it was ever ok.

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waking up

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2017, 12:57:39 PM »
No matter what your spouse has done, the way I see it is you are only left with a few  choices. One choice is to TRUST them (which means we also FORGIVE them because we trust they have changed) or the choice where we realize we can't trust them again (because they've shown they are unable to change) and we therefore need to end the relationship (for our own peace of mind). And even after we leave them, we STILL need to FORGIVE them (again for our own peace of mind).
If you choose the option of not trusting them but still choose to stay, you will continue to feel hurt by them, over and over.
Forgiveness is necessary for our own healing - we can't move on without it. It doesn't mean that what they've done to us is right- it means we don't continue to give them the power to keep hurting us.

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raerae1610

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Re: How do you forgive your PD's unforgivable comments and acts, or do you?
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2017, 12:53:24 PM »
There are some really great suggestions in this thread, thank you everyone for sharing.  Forgiving someone who doesn't see wrong in their actions is difficult to do for sure...and even more so when they refuse to apologize.  I've learned that forgiveness is for my own benefit...it doesn't mean I'm setting myself up to be let down or hurt by abusive behaviour again, but that I have some understanding of where it's coming from, and that I can't hang on to it because hanging on to it makes me feel worse...it's creates more toxicity in my soul.  I have definitely worked on not setting myself up for disappointment by trying to forget it all happens...although some of it is quickly forgotten thanks to my mind learning to disassociate in the middle of the screaming, berating and posturing.  Forgiveness does not mean acceptance that this is how things should be in my life, it means I need to feel better about myself and be the bigger person in all of this until she gains an ability to recognize the damage she does with her razor sharp words and attempts at intimidating me.
:yeahthat:
When I finally reached my limit and woke up to the abuse I was suffering, I made myself the priority. I forgive my uBPDh and his family because I don't need to carry around their toxicity.