Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?

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blacksheep7

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2017, 09:59:39 AM »
No.  He was absent from our adult lives for 35 yrs. Would see him every 5 yrs, briefly, never with his wife who held a grudge until she died. Now he came back because he's alone and is mama's boy.   You don't deserve respect, you earn it.   He fucked up with his behavior, again.  You get what you give.  He runs from me.  How childish! 
I may be the black sheep of the family, but some of the white sheep are not as white as they try to appear.

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sandpiper

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2017, 05:59:46 PM »
Sometimes I wonder if it's worth reaching out to my sisters, but as my therapist put it - 'Well, it's not like they've been looking for you, Piper.'
I guess you have to be really clear on the issues. As they say, we all have responsibility for our 50% of the relationship.
I was expected to carry 110% of the blame for whatever went wrong and I wasn't allowed to have boundaries.
My sisters both have major issues with substance abuse & this on top of the unaddressed trauma & dysfunction is what makes me hesitate to walk back into that.
I've reached a place of NC where I can detach with love & hope that they heal & find peace, but I'm still feeling far too vulnerable to have them back in my life on the same terms on which we parted company.
It was sucking me under to have them treat me the way that they did & it was pure survival mode, walking away from that.
As I said to my T, many times 'I don't like who I become when I'm around my family.'
I just get sucked straight back into the toxic dysfunction and awful communication and it's like everything I've worked so hard to learn just goes right out the window.

There are some family members that have behaved so badly that I'm not sure it would be wise to accept an apology from them.
While I don't want to spend my life holding grudges and ruminating on the past, I don't want to put myself in a position where I'd be vulnerable to more of the same behaviour.
It's like the fable about the scorpion and the frog - they can't help themselves, they'll sting you to death even if it means that they'll drown beside you.

I think AA has a philosophy for people who do go into recovery, that they have to accept that while they were drinking/drugging/throwing rages/lying/gaslighting, there will be some people who just won't want them back in their lives because of all the damage that they've done. Recovery is accepting what they've done.
FWIW I don't think any of the substance abusing and or PD relatives in my life are capable of looking at the carnage that they've left in their wake, much less of making the effort to clean up after themselves.

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Sunshine days

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2017, 06:28:10 PM »
Sandpiper , you seem like you are ahead of the game and ready for any angle . I have found the more I heal the more I see they never cared it was me wanting normality. If you go back I doubt they are capable of accepting the truth and as time goes on and you heal you forget the pain ( grudge) you was holding . Hopefully new things make up for the new you. I have had flu for a week and it's times like this you want your family but then I pinched myself and said but you never had them before.

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Salsera

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2017, 01:39:14 AM »
Gettingstronger, I'm also sorry you had to go through that, it had to be so very painful.  And they knew they were withholding big news from you - there it is again, control.
And All4peace, it's the same pattern, withholding important information....I can't see how people do that and then sleep at night.  I just keep thinking how it will all come out in the end...whenever and however that may be.
chowder, your sister not telling about your parent dying? That is jaw-droppingly terrible. I literally fear if/when my ILs have a serious illness. I really feel that we will be kept in the dark as long as possible. Information is currency, and we are to be impoverished. To be fair, I'm now doing the same with them. These are not people I want having any information about my life if at a possible. But it wasn't always that way.

Information is currency only if it has any value to you. Since I no longer care anything about FOO, nothing, then information about them is meaningless to me. Information about me might be currency to them, but I don't care.
I have been NC for 3 1/2 years and my 20 yo and 18 yo DSs, who are still in contact with my heinous FOO,  know not to give information about me to  any of them because they would just use it to twist, lie, smear, whatever.
I am certain that I will not be told when NM dies. I was not told that one of the GC SILs was pregnant. And, thanks to gd, I am at the point where I truly do not care one bit about any of them.
Never give what is holy to dogs or throw your pearls before pigs. Otherwise, they will trample them with their feet and then turn around and attack you. - Matthew 7:6

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Abigail

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2017, 07:53:06 PM »
I'm new to this forum but no... my half sister (we just connected almost two years ago) has never apologized to me for any of her behaviors.  I get "I talked with my husband and my friends and they think that I have done nothing wrong" every time.  I'm going crazy in my head over the psychological mind roller coaster......

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Hazy111

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2017, 08:50:48 PM »
No.

 I  reconnected with my BPD sister recently and i apologized to her , but got nothing from her. Then it all started up again from her and ive gone NC again.

 I bought her birthday card , but i couldnt buy one that said anything about love. I just couldnt...... says it all i guess........

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Geko

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2017, 11:27:53 AM »
I've had a faux apology but knew it wasn't meant :upsidedown: I've also had problems with presents and wondering about "special" gifts to favourite children. Also how they will make any situation suit their needs no matter how stupid they sound trying to make it all fit their circumstances.  :doh:

I love this site, it helps me "get it". :applause: It also helps me know I'm not alone in my thinking and that it's ok to get it off your chest and have a good moan about it. :yeahthat: It also helps me make sense of it all and reassures me that I'm not completely alone in my thinking and understanding. What I loved most of all. when I read all the stuff I read was that I wasn't the one with the PD, which they so readily tried to tell me that I was.  :bigwink:

So, big hugs everyone we probably all deserve an apology but I certainly won't hold my breath. Take care 
But still, like dust, I'll rise.  (Maya Angelou)

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sandpiper

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2017, 03:45:41 PM »
My Ntrait alcoholic sister once said, in very snotty tones 'I'm sorry you feel that way.'
It was in response to me voicing my objection to a repeated boundary violation (I'm not allowed to have boundaries & this particular one had been violated many times, to the point where I was furious at her continuing to disregard the boundary) and her tone was one of smug passive aggression of 'Well aren't you intolerant, clearly you are the one with the problem here.'
I just looked at her and said 'Well, I am sorry you BEHAVED that way but clearly you are not, and until you are there's really no point in discussing it.'
That conversation did not end well, and it resulted in NC, because the argument just escalated from there.
I am NC because after all the work that I did to heal, to be more functional, and to learn how to have better relationships - well, none of that helped me to have a better relationship with my family and if anything I think it made it even harder.
Knowing what good relationships were made it so clear to me what was going wrong with the way that my FOO acted, and I wound up having pretty much zero tolerance for it.
No respect for boundaries, very little reciprocality, steady passive aggression, only hearing from them when they wanted something...you know the drill.
I had simply reached the point where I knew that any apology from them was pointless because it wasn't sincere and it wouldn't signal any kind of change in the behaviour.
It was really hard to come to terms with that, but honestly, an apology from an alcoholic, a drug user or a PD is meaningless, unless they've had some sort of epiphany about their own issues and they are actively seeking help to turn their lives around.
Most of my mother's FOO simply interact in a way that for them is normal and which for me is like walking into a room filled with poison gas.
I don't want to live like that, and as long as they do, every time they open their mouths the poison is going to seep out and fill the room.
Change is hard, and I know they have their own issues which make it highly unlikely that they are ever going to sit down and look at how they do things, and decide to change.
If that were to happen, I would feel like I'd won the lottery.
I know what the odds of that are, and I also know that I've very low on trust when it comes to my family.
I've built a better life away from them and all I can really do is to keep working on my issues, and work on building good relationships with people who know what good relationships actually are.

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Sunshine days

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2017, 06:38:27 PM »
My Ntrait alcoholic sister once said, in very snotty tones 'I'm sorry you feel that way.'
It was in response to me voicing my objection to a repeated boundary violation (I'm not allowed to have boundaries & this particular one had been violated many times, to the point where I was furious at her continuing to disregard the boundary) and her tone was one of smug passive aggression of 'Well aren't you intolerant, clearly you are the one with the problem here.'
I just looked at her and said 'Well, I am sorry you BEHAVED that way but clearly you are not, and until you are there's really no point in discussing it.'
That conversation did not end well, and it resulted in NC, because the argument just escalated from there.
I am NC because after all the work that I did to heal, to be more functional, and to learn how to have better relationships - well, none of that helped me to have a better relationship with my family and if anything I think it made it even harder.
Knowing what good relationships were made it so clear to me what was going wrong with the way that my FOO acted, and I wound up having pretty much zero tolerance for it.
No respect for boundaries, very little reciprocality, steady passive aggression, only hearing from them when they wanted something...you know the drill.
I had simply reached the point where I knew that any apology from them was pointless because it wasn't sincere and it wouldn't signal any kind of change in the behaviour.
It was really hard to come to terms with that, but honestly, an apology from an alcoholic, a drug user or a PD is meaningless, unless they've had some sort of epiphany about their own issues and they are actively seeking help to turn their lives around.
Most of my mother's FOO simply interact in a way that for them is normal and which for me is like walking into a room filled with poison gas.
I don't want to live like that, and as long as they do, every time they open their mouths the poison is going to seep out and fill the room.
Change is hard, and I know they have their own issues which make it highly unlikely that they are ever going to sit down and look at how they do things, and decide to change.
If that were to happen, I would feel like I'd won the lottery.
I know what the odds of that are, and I also know that I've very low on trust when it comes to my family.
I've built a better life away from them and all I can really do is to keep working on my issues, and work on building good relationships with people who know what good relationships actually are.
Sandpiper, I don't anything to add to to your post but yesterday I read a post from u that was 3 years old , blimey you knew what you was saying then, I find your posts spot on x

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sandpiper

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2017, 03:56:01 PM »
Thanks SunshineDays.
Credit for me being alive and functional goes to the love and support of groups like these that kept me afloat & guided me safely to shore at a time when I was drowning.  I come back here so I can pay that forward & because everyone here who is working through their pain to recover - well, you give me hope. One day it will be one of you younger ones who might guide the children of my sisters and my cousins Out of the FOG. xxx

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carrots

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2017, 01:57:31 PM »
Yes. It seemed a true apology at the time. Years later something occurred to make me wonder if it really was a true apology.

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Foreignwoman

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2017, 05:43:59 PM »
No, but I'm the problem & I'm the one who should apologise for existing.
We're all very clear on that.
 8-)

  :rofl:

No.

FW
Freedom is never voluntary given by the oppressor, it is demanded by the oppressed.

Martin Luther King, Jr

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looloo

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2017, 06:46:11 PM »
Yes. It seemed a true apology at the time. Years later something occurred to make me wonder if it really was a true apology.

I'm very convinced that my recovering alcoholic (decades sober now) brother is undiagnosed Schizoid PD.  I've done a bunch of reading on it--online articles and actual scholarly studies--and he checks the boxes big time.  A similar trait to folks on the autism spectrum is that, if they do have any empathy and awareness, they don't express it.  My brother's face and voice have always had a very flat affect, which is common in people with SPD.  He also lived in his own internal world, really oblivious to whatever was going around him much of the time.  He's never demonstrated any curiosity, concern, or affection towards anyone--but he is married (to a seriously unhinged woman who is definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed) and does have a few long term close friends.  But no bonds with FOO, which makes total sense, my parents being who they were/are.

My brother was completely out of touch for years, which was just fine with me--except for periodically coming around my parents to plead remorse and then ask for financial help, which they gave (lovely cycle of guilt/contempt/codependency going on). There was never any real bond between us, I just hoped he was happy and that was enough.  But a few years after our father died, he called me asking if we could have dinner.  I was pretty stressed out over the prospect--I didn't really want to go there, but I felt OBLIGATED  ::).  And I was thinking very irrationally, actually wondering if there was a chance that I could actually have some semblance of a family relationship.  I was hopeful for something that is just not possible.

He insisted on paying, and then told me how sorry he was for all the crap he did.  I immediately told him everything was fine, don't worry.  I meant it, but looking back, I think I just felt so uncomfortable that I impulsively tried to ease his discomfort.  Which now, I wonder, maybe was his plan.  I don't think he realizes that he manipulates, but he's demonstrated in the years since then that he doesn't want or need any contact with me, except for making sure he gets an inheritance one of these days.

I think we have different ideas of what being sorry really means.  In his case, I think he has the same attitude as a little kid, who doesn't want to hurt you, and feels badly about it, but doesn't want to do all the ugly soul-searching that is required of a responsible adult.  He wants forgiveness, and he got it, and so he's fine.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 06:57:26 PM by looloo »
“If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.”  Oscar Wilde.

"My actions are my true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand."  Thich Nhat Hanh

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sandpiper

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2017, 10:21:24 PM »
During the fight that preceded NC, by which point I was already wishing that I'd given up & walked away, N-sis looked at me pitifully and said 'I don't know how to have relationships'.
I was furious, because I'd spent the previous 20 years having T, reading books on how to have better relationships, how to communicate, how to deal with difficult people - all of it treated with utter scorn by both sisters - and then she says this.
It felt like it was just a ploy to reel me back in & it was just too damned late. I simply didn't care.
Since she hasn't made an effort to see me since, I'm guessing that learning how to have good relationships isn't something that rates high on her priority list. It's more important to put away the next bottle of Scotch.

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Sunshine days

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2017, 07:04:16 AM »
During the fight that preceded NC, by which point I was already wishing that I'd given up & walked away, N-sis looked at me pitifully and said 'I don't know how to have relationships'.
I was furious, because I'd spent the previous 20 years having T, reading books on how to have better relationships, how to communicate, how to deal with difficult people - all of it treated with utter scorn by both sisters - and then she says this.
It felt like it was just a ploy to reel me back in & it was just too damned late. I simply didn't care.
Since she hasn't made an effort to see me since, I'm guessing that learning how to have good relationships isn't something that rates high on her priority list. It's more important to put away the next bottle of Scotch.
Maybe the ploy is to get you to go back to the old way you use to be but they haven't changed and you saw the trick in them. That's sad you making up for them when it was them all along and the cheek of it they had the nerve to admit it in the end

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blacksheep7

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2017, 10:52:45 AM »
looloo, on another note, if I may, because it caught my attention.... talking about  your brother as being undiagnosed Schizoid PD.
I think my sister fits that category.  Your post made me research it again.  She also  always had a flat even voice. Don't get me wrong, she does show happiness but only, what makes her happy.   Our relationship has always been superficial, always talking about the lighter things in life. She is in her fifties. Never really saw her express  anger.  Has no friends.  Does not talk about her emotions and even her daughters told me so.  They are very aware of how she is and are affected by it.   She avoids it at all costs.  If a situation bothers or hurts her, she always says, it's the least of my worries. For example, my narcm and gc sib, not attending her FIL funeral, last October.  Will avoid any conflict.
Last November, I expressed my feelings to her saying I was disappointed that she hadn't called my daughter to congratulate her on her second pregnancy, after three miscarriages in a row. We always were in each others life, so I could not comprehend.  She shows interests in babies, my grandchildren, very much.   I didn't hear from her in nearly four months.  I called her to annonce the birth of that baby, end of January.
I know, I'm off subject but thanks for listening.  It's just sad that this is the result of our childhood abuse.
I may be the black sheep of the family, but some of the white sheep are not as white as they try to appear.

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Sunshine days

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2017, 04:55:11 PM »
looloo, on another note, if I may, because it caught my attention.... talking about  your brother as being undiagnosed Schizoid PD.
I think my sister fits that category.  Your post made me research it again.  She also  always had a flat even voice. Don't get me wrong, she does show happiness but only, what makes her happy.   Our relationship has always been superficial, always talking about the lighter things in life. She is in her fifties. Never really saw her express  anger.  Has no friends.  Does not talk about her emotions and even her daughters told me so.  They are very aware of how she is and are affected by it.   She avoids it at all costs.  If a situation bothers or hurts her, she always says, it's the least of my worries. For example, my narcm and gc sib, not attending her FIL funeral, last October.  Will avoid any conflict.
Last November, I expressed my feelings to her saying I was disappointed that she hadn't called my daughter to congratulate her on her second pregnancy, after three miscarriages in a row. We always were in each others life, so I could not comprehend.  She shows interests in babies, my grandchildren, very much.   I didn't hear from her in nearly four months.  I called her to annonce the birth of that baby, end of January.
I know, I'm off subject but thanks for listening.  It's just sad that this is the result of our childhood abuse.
Lets face it its all about them and if we are not doing the relationship we see how abnormal they are. Did she not say where she had been in 4 months? mine disappeared for 5 years and then showed up, worse thing I did was allow it to carry on the weird behaviour.

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Weavingthru

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2017, 05:18:12 PM »
Well, sort of. My only sibling and I have been estranged since his marriage, he's now divorced. Over the last 10 years, he has called with tearful, dramatic apologies, probably three times,  and I have accepted them. During these same marathon phone calls, we would "bond" over our crappy childhoods and I'd feel close to him. He'd always end up needing money and I would send it to him, thinking we were finally on the path to a "real" relationship. But, I'd never hear from him until the next big, dramatic "apology," always followed by his request for money. He called me last summer, same drill, except this time I asked him about NM and enF.  Even though I haven't spoken to them in about two years, the three of them apparently get together all the time. Holidays, birthdays, just because. He even has to drive right by my house to get to our parent's home. I didn't give him any money this time, but felt used and betrayed like never before. When I asked him why NM and enF were giving me the silent treatment, he said in a haughty tone, "I really don't want to get involved."

So, NC for all three. And, I will not take his next "apology" call.

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Sunshine days

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2017, 05:26:01 PM »
Well, sort of. My only sibling and I have been estranged since his marriage, he's now divorced. Over the last 10 years, he has called with tearful, dramatic apologies, probably three times,  and I have accepted them. During these same marathon phone calls, we would "bond" over our crappy childhoods and I'd feel close to him. He'd always end up needing money and I would send it to him, thinking we were finally on the path to a "real" relationship. But, I'd never hear from him until the next big, dramatic "apology," always followed by his request for money. He called me last summer, same drill, except this time I asked him about NM and enF.  Even though I haven't spoken to them in about two years, the three of them apparently get together all the time. Holidays, birthdays, just because. He even has to drive right by my house to get to our parent's home. I didn't give him any money this time, but felt used and betrayed like never before. When I asked him why NM and enF were giving me the silent treatment, he said in a haughty tone, "I really don't want to get involved."

So, NC for all three. And, I will not take his next "apology" call.
I think he would know if he did try again it would be sheer hard faceness

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NewFreedom

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Re: Has anyone ever had an estranged sibling call and truly apologize?
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2017, 10:07:01 AM »
I am NC with my sister and haven't spoken in a year. Definitely not expecting an apology from her.

My NPD sister's son is my age because she had him at a very young age and my mom had me at an older age. I pretty much grew up with my nephew more like a cousin or a best friend or even a brother. He is a definite covert Narc and I decided to go NC with him 7 years ago. After 3 years of NC he called me and apologized. He actually owned up to a lot of the reasons I went NC and I thought it was really nice. We were able to have a distant, but existent relationship that felt okay for me.

My tale of caution is this... last year when I went NC with my NPD sister, my NPD nephew also refused to go to my wedding and now we don't speak again. His apology was obviously not real or authentic because if it was, he would have asked me for my side of the story... or understood that his mom was out of line, or at least chosen to stay neutral. But no, now we are back to not speaking.

He may have meant a small portion of what he said, or maybe it was a completely selfish act. Well, I actually think it was completely selfish to seem like the bigger person when really he doesn't give a sh** about me our our relationship.

Just saying... beware of apologies from NPDs.